"Fine" Dining With Crohn's Disease Featuring Michael Ornelas - About IBD Podcast Ep 164

“Fine” Dining With Crohn’s Disease Featuring Michael Ornelas – About IBD Podcast Ep 164

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What’s the difference between ulcerative colitis and Crohn’s disease? We talk about them like they’re two distinct sides of a spectrum, but there are people who don’t have a firm place on that continuum. Amber Tresca talks with Michael Ornelas, host of the “Fine” Dining podcast, about his journey with IBD. Michael was first diagnosed with proctitis, then Crohn’s disease, and later, maybe, with ulcerative colitis. Michael shares his experiences with symptoms, treatments, and the impact IBD has his life. But it’s not all serious! Michael also talks about his comedy podcast, “Fine” Dining, which encompasses the search for mediocrity in chain restaurants. Maybe an unexpected choice for a project for person with IBD, so they also discuss Michael’s unique perspectives on food.

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Episode transcript and more information at: https://bit.ly/AIBD164

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Transcript (Machine Generated)

[Music: IBD Dance Party]

Amber Tresca 0:05
I’m Amber Tresca, and this is About IBD.

Amber Tresca 0:08
I’m a medical writer and patient educator who lives with a J pouch due to ulcerative colitis. It’s my mission to educate people living with Crohn’s disease or ulcerative colitis about their disease and to bring awareness to the patient journey.

Amber Tresca 0:19
Welcome to Episode 164!

Amber Tresca 0:22
People with inflammatory bowel disease or IBD sometimes have a difficult relationship with food. I think diet might be the most consistently controversial topic in IBD circles. A quick literature search shows that one study puts the rate of eating disorders in people with IBD at 24%. In the general population, it is about 3%. So being the host of a podcast about food might not seem like a natural fit for someone who lives with IBD.

Amber Tresca 0:50
My guest is Michael Ornelas, the host of “Fine” Dining, the hilarious search for the most mediocre chain restaurant in America. And I need to note here that the word fine is in quotes. Michael also lives with a form of IBD, whether it’s ulcerative colitis or Crohn’s disease, is kind of up in the air at the time of this recording.

Amber Tresca 1:09
Michael tells us how and why he got started with “Fine” Dining, why his diagnosis has been in question over the years, his controversial take on cheese, and about the time he pooped his pants in the street.

Amber Tresca 1:25
Michael, thank you so much for coming out about IV. D,

Michael Ornelas 1:28
thank you for having me.

Amber Tresca 1:30
Yeah, it is my pleasure. I’m so excited to get to speak to you after listening to your show fine dining, which we’ll get into. But first, I’d like to get a little introduction. Would you tell me a little bit about yourself?

Michael Ornelas 1:44
My name is Michael Ornelas. I am…if I’m talking about my diagnosis, it’s a little weird, because I on my last visit to my gastroenterologist, like a month ago, he kind of told me, I don’t know why you say you have Crohn’s. I think you have ulcerative colitis. But like, I’m sure we’ll get into my journey. But like, now I’m unsure what to say my diagnosis is because it was one then it was the other for a long time, and I’ve gotten used to saying that, and now he’s like, I think you have, I think it’s you see, not that it’s like a huge thing that matters the difference between one or the other. But just as far as, like, my identity with it, it’s kind of been thrown into upheaval.

Michael Ornelas 2:29
But yeah, and I’m a podcaster. I do a show called fine dining that’s fine in quotes, the search for the most mediocre restaurant in America. And usually on my podcast, whenever the word America is said, I play the sound of an eagle, even though I use the sound of a red tailed hawk, because it just sounds better.

Michael Ornelas 2:50
Anyways, yeah, I eat at a lot of chain restaurants, which, which, when you have IBD is an interesting pursuit that I’ve largely, I guess, lucked out with. So that’s, that’s a little bit about me.

Amber Tresca 3:09
Yeah, right. Thank you so much. That’s, that’s why, like, I’m so excited to talk to you, because I just…putting all of this together. I need you to help me to put it together in my brain.

Amber Tresca 3:19
So you were diagnosed with Crohn’s disease. Now they’re throwing you for a loop and telling you that you might have ulcerative colitis. Usually it’s they think it’s ulcerative colitis or indeterminate, and then it becomes Crohn’s.

Michael Ornelas 3:34
Okay.

Amber Tresca 3:34
So, and that is a really wild thing, especially when you finally wrap your head around a diagnosis and then somebody tells you that it might not be the right one. So alright, let’s get started though, with with with your journeys as we understand it. What happened between this the diagnosis of Crohn’s to now where you’re not really sure where you’re at. Tell me how symptoms started. What was it like when you were diagnosed? How old were you, for instance.

Michael Ornelas 4:01
The year was 2009 I was just a boy, 21 years of age in Austin, Texas. I was in college, and I feel like most college aged males, I wasn’t paying attention to what my body was telling me. And more importantly, I think I felt kind of a level of shame to well, my stools are getting looser. It smells weird or different, I guess than you know, everyone has their brand. My brand started smelling different, yeah, and I didn’t know what to make of it. It wasn’t bloody, it was just softer and almost mucusy, yeah, oh god. I feel like it’s so weird to go on a podcast and talk about this in detail.

Amber Tresca 4:52
Yeah, yeah, but I guarantee you it’s, you know, we talk about this all the time, and I talk about it, you know, as well for myself.

Michael Ornelas 4:59
Oh, yeah, and so I probably ignored symptoms for about two to three months as my frequency and urgency started getting less in my control, and I remember one by Christmas that year, I remember we went out to my aunt’s house, and I just spent the whole day in the bathroom. I think I counted 14 trips to the restroom all to do a Tuesday. And it wasn’t ideal. It wasn’t my favorite Christmas I’ve ever had, and that was the day where I finally mentioned something to my parents, where I was just like, hey, I think something’s going on with me beyond the scope of, you know, a normal, oh, I’m just, it’s a phase that’ll pass. It’s, oh, I just have a bad case of diarrhea, or it’s something I’ve been eating or whatever. No, this is consistent, and it’s not getting better. And I just spent 14 trips to the bathroom on my Christmas day.

Michael Ornelas 6:07
You know, I have a very protective mom who’s, you know, she’ll, she’ll fight battles with me, so she was a very good support system to have. And I started the next semester of school while going to the doctor, and I went to a GI first they did, you know, like a manual exam with with a finger, and it was maybe the most painful thing I’d ever experienced. And they were like, Oh, you need to go to a gastro doctor, which, you know, just having this elevate to a specialist. Was very scary when you’re 21 years old.

Michael Ornelas 6:45
And I went in and they said you have proctitis, and here is an oral medication. Be on your way. And I had such a nightmare experience with my first gastro Doctor ended up getting, I forget if it was a colonoscopy or a sigmoidoscopy, but I got one of those at some point. And you know, he was like, Yeah, proctitis years. I want to say the drug was called Asacol or something like that.

Amber Tresca 7:19
Yep.

Michael Ornelas 7:19
And it did nothing like I just I took it for probably three weeks, and I saw no improvement, and I went back into him. He’s like, Oh well, it takes about 90 days for it to and I was like, Well, tell me one, tell me that, yeah. Two, that sucks. And three things, things are getting worse, so I need something to hold me over now. So he threw me on a prednisone regimen, which sucks my cheeks, got really bloated. The back of my neck started getting, I think they call it like Moon hump or something. I don’t know, I don’t remember…

Amber Tresca 7:57
Buffalo hump or…

Michael Ornelas 7:58
Yeah, Buffalo Yeah. This is 15 years ago. All great stuff, yeah, and I didn’t recognize myself when I looked in the mirror. It was, it was, yeah, you know, the journey. It’s awful. And then I think the prednisone plus, like a suppository steroid that he gave me started working, and I was like, Oh, I’ve turned a corner. And I, my dad had taken a job in Connecticut to be closer. Oh, God, this is, this is a story that’s unrelated to Crohn’s, but…

Amber Tresca 8:37
Well, you have to tell it, in case you don’t got it. I live in Connecticut, so now you have to tell the story.

Michael Ornelas 8:41
Okay, so my freshman year of college, I went to a music conservatory in New York City, Manhattan, School of Music. My life pursuit was to be an orchestral percussionist, and I only did a year of school there my dad, who you know my parents lived in, still do live in Austin, and he took a job in Stamford to be closer to me, but I transferred back, so I ended up as so like shifts in the night. He’s like, Oh, I just took a job that’s at least two or three year commitment in Connecticut.

Michael Ornelas 9:17
And I was like, sorry, I don’t think that the orchestral music thing is going to pan out for me the way that I had hoped. This is before all the chrome stuff and so, so, yeah, so I spent a spring break with him in Stanford the, you know, the following year or whatever. Once, once I had already gone back to University of Texas, and he never outwardly showed that he was devastated that I left New York…

Amber Tresca 9:43
You left him behind.

Speaker 1 9:45
But that is a thing that happened. But I went up there for spring break, ready to be like, Oh, I have fun. I spent the whole week in the bathroom. Everything kind of came back with a force. This is about three months after that Christmas, right? And. And I remember they were like, you have, I think it was a perianal abscess, where they were like, you know, you just so much is going on down there that you got an abscess.

Michael Ornelas 10:13
So I had to get surgery on spring break for that to be removed. Had stitches. I’m in the like, I spent that whole trip in the bathtub because it was just like warmth, and it was, you know, for recovery, it was like, Okay, that’s a thing. And, and I thought I was turning the corner of the proctitis, and I remember my doctor, who at this point I’d switched to a new GI, who ended up kind of being a saint to me, like, just took very good care of me, told me that, like, oh, about 5% of the cases of proctitis become colitis, which, I don’t know if that’s the number or what’s true, but he Yeah, I don’t know. You have a look on your face…

Amber Tresca 11:00
That is not…that is not, that is not the number.

Speaker 1 11:02
Or rather indicative of something I don’t know…

Amber Tresca 11:06
Higher than that. But, yeah, okay, all right, that’s fine.

Michael Ornelas 11:10
Yeah, I don’t know. He made it sound like we can treat this as is, and then eventually, kind of that, that week in Connecticut, I remember coming back, and it was kind of the tipping point, and I was skipping classes and stuff. I my pants in the middle of a crosswalk on my way to class, which there was like a bus that was like waiting for me to cross at this crosswalk, and people on this bus just saw a guy walk halfway across the crosswalk and then turn back the way he came from and waddle away like there’s no way they don’t know what’s going on. But that’s that was my truth. Yeah, in that moment, yeah.

Michael Ornelas 11:54
And by April, so about two and a half weeks later, I was staying home so much. And again, I was just like, my parents had, like a Jacuzzi tub, so I would just kind of hang out and, you know, again, try it like that would just be the only thing that was soothing. I remember I’d put my computer up, I’d watch TV or whatever on my computer, because it was like, right when Hulu was starting. And eventually my mom was in constant contact with my GI doctor at the time in Austin, and he suggested I come to the hospital. I ended up being in the hospital for 28 days. I mean, it’s traumatic when you’re 21 to be like, Hey, you’re going to spend a month of your life in the hospital, and a lot of it, you’re not going to have hope, because they kept kind of escalating the different treatments.

Michael Ornelas 12:43
You know, the doses of prednisone I went from having oral prednisone pills, I think I want to say 180 milligrams or something. I don’t, don’t quote me on that. It was 15 years ago. I don’t remember, but I remember they started giving me the same medication intravenously, and they’re like, We tripled your dose. We’re giving it to you twice as frequent, and we’re just trying to tame whatever it is. And then, you know, there’s kind of that lack of dignity in the hospital, where they come in and take your vitals every four hours.

Michael Ornelas 13:16
And to this day, I really struggle to sleep more than four hours without waking up. I can usually go back to sleep, but I think it trained my body to wake up and just expect vitals to be taken or something, which is what my sleep paralysis demon does. It’s crazy. I’ll like, wake up my blood pressure, yeah, and so I spent a month in the hospital.

Michael Ornelas 13:46
Eventually, my doctor was like, we’re gonna try this thing called Remicade. We give it to you once, and then we give it to you a week later, and then two weeks later, and then four weeks, six weeks, and we’re gonna try and, you know, feel like there’s a T word that means, I don’t know, I don’t know the medical term, but there’s something about, like, Oh, we’re trying to extend how often it is that you need doses. I want to say the word titrate, or try today. I don’t know…

Amber Tresca 14:10
Like, like, titrating the the dosage, or yours, that the right word, or your trough level, which is where they look at the level of the drug that’s in your body. Like, yeah, all of that, it was, yeah, yeah, all of that, they were doing the right things. But, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 14:26
But it’s like, you know, my toilet in my room has, like, the little plastic bowl where it catches everything, and it’s just like, there’s such a not that it’s, you know, they need to do it, but it feels awful to like be like you’re just used to being able to flush and not look at it. And you know, I’m it’s so regular to me now to have to do that.

Michael Ornelas 14:53
But anyways, the first batch of Remicade didn’t take the second one did, and I finally. Felt relief for the first time in seven months that, like, oh, there might be something we can do about this. I got out. Yeah, it was like, literally, I think April 1 to April 28 was my stay in the hospital of 2010 and I got out. I met retroactively, had a medical withdrawal from my school semester so that I wasn’t, like, failing all the classes I was in, yeah, and then just I kind of suffered a depression for the next year to year and a half, as I kind of got used to my new paradigm. And the following, or, you know that that summer, probably, I want to say August of 2010 we took a visit to Chicago, where my mom’s side of the family is from, and had an appointment with Dr Rubin, who I know is…

Amber Tresca 15:48
Friend of the pod!

Michael Ornelas 15:50
…a big shot, yeah, in this, in this world, and he did a colonoscopy on me, and he said, you don’t have ulcerative colitis, you have Crohn’s. And so his diagnosis is what I have gone with for the last 15 years. And it was at my last gi visit which my doctors at Cedar Sinai here in LA, yeah, he’s the one who, like, looked at my chart and my findings and my, you know, past colonoscopy, the like, pictures from it or whatever.

Michael Ornelas 16:22
And he said, I don’t see anything to me that indicates that it’s Crohn’s and not. UC, so, but I’ve been seeing this guy for, like, since I moved to LA, so it’s weird to me that he says that now, but, you know, I think it’s just that I said I have Crohn’s to him, and he was like, Oh, I see you as more of a UC, patient. I don’t know how much it matters, but Dr Rubin is the only one who has seen me that has said it is Crohn’s and not UC.

Amber Tresca 16:48
Well, I mean, you know, as you get more evidence, you sometimes change what right, what your what your opinion is. Yeah, Dr Rubin, friend of the show, has been mentioned in absence, many, many times on my show.

Amber Tresca 17:12
After the break, Michael’s controversial take on cheese.

Amber Tresca 17:28
So when did somebody finally tell you that you had Crohn’s disease, like you had an initial scope of some kind, whether that was the sigmoidoscopy or a colonoscopy? Yeah, did they tie it in? I

Michael Ornelas 17:42
had three scopes in the span. The first scope, I want to say, was where they said proctitis, yeah. The second scope is where they said, This is colitis, ulcerative colitis, yeah. And then the third scope was, you know, probably those six or seven months later in August, with Dr Rubin, where he said, Crohn’s. And then now I get one, usually every other year, sometimes yearly, just depending on how the last one went, if there’s something that he feels he needs to check up on. You know, they found polyps one time, and they were like, Let’s do one in a year, not two years. I’ve got my next one in eight days from our recording date. So looking forward to a prep week next week. Yeah, it’s I hate Gatorade.

Amber Tresca 18:29
Oh my gosh, if I never have to again. That in jello. No, thank you.

Michael Ornelas 18:35
I don’t do the jello. Yeah?

Amber Tresca 18:37
I don’t do the jello. Yeah, yeah, a long hospital stay will make you never want to eat jello ever again. Yeah, recreationally. All right, so, okay, so you’re doing reasonably well. You’re doing well. Are you still on the Remicade? What’s happening?

Michael Ornelas 18:54
I have been told I’m in remission, okay? And I and I’ve been in remission since like, 2011 I don’t know, I’ll get, like, occasional cramps, and I’ll get, you know, some texture things or some urgency, things that I always chalk up to Crohn’s, but they may just be the average person, you know, the average person gets diarrhea, the average person has vowel issues from time to time. So it is hard for me to discern between the two, but I always just blame my you know, it’s easier to look at my friends be like, sorry, I was like Crohn’s. But, you know, it may have just been bad planning. I don’t know. Another key element of my treatment, at least for a while, is I was on Iran or as the theoprene, I think is the generic form of it. And I was on that until 20 end of 2019 because I was just realizing I was having weird side effects to it. I know that, like different skin conditions can kind of be a side effect.

Michael Ornelas 19:57
And I noticed that whenever I would get sunburned, my skin would turn. Purple, and it felt like an alarm of, hey, I don’t know if this is related to this medication, but if you cannot be on it, maybe try to not be on it. And I reached out to my doctors. I was like, Can I stop being on this? And they said, try it. We’ll see how it goes. Because my understanding and I could be wrong. My understanding is that the Imran was intended to prevent my body from developing antibodies to the Remicade, so I’ve been off that for almost five full years now, and I still haven’t seemingly developed antibodies, knocked on wood, and I’m doing okay. I feel like I have been lucky in that I haven’t noticed a ton of correlation between things I eat and when I get symptoms, which is what I believe has given me the green light to do a podcast where I’m eating at chain restaurants, fast food restaurants and stuff like that, without really paying the price too much.

Michael Ornelas 20:58
So I don’t know if it’s just a lucky diagnosis, but at the same time that you know that one month in April in a hospital, to me, doesn’t scream lucky, but at this point, I’m far enough removed from it that I do feel like I can test myself, or, you know, understand myself well enough to proceed with it,

Amber Tresca 21:18
right, Right? And so has your disease always been in your colon? They’ve never found anything anywhere else, as far as

Michael Ornelas 21:27
I know. Yeah, okay, the one aspect, I mean, this isn’t about the the ulcer pattern in my colon or anything, but it has come to my attention that one of the paired effects or diseases that you can get with Crohn’s is osteopenia, osteoporosis. And I do have pretty bad osteopenia in my hips and spine. I like, threw out my back out doing nothing a few weeks ago. And I’m 36 and I’m like, Oh, the next 50 years look rough if I’m feeling this old, this young. So that has honestly been more of a challenge for my day to day life than the actual like, BM part of having Crohn’s lately, right?

Amber Tresca 22:21
Yeah, it’s probably all that freaking prednisone that they gave you. Oh, my God. I mean, you probably really needed it, but it’s not helping you now. So what? What did your doctor say at your last colonoscopy? Like, are they seeing inflammation? Are they seeing that? It looks good? What do they You said they found a polyp, so they want to monitor that, but

Michael Ornelas 22:43
it was very they removed it. It was like a microscopic. They were like it. It isn’t big enough for us to have a measurement for it, but we did remove it. Okay, great. Glad you caught it. That was, I think, two, maybe three colonoscopies ago. I want to say that was maybe 2021, or 2020, right? My last couple, honestly, for the past decade or so, they’re just things look good, come in again in a couple years, and we’ll just it’s there to monitor it, you know, which you know, it could be so much worse. I remember when I first moved to LA I jumped on a dating app, and there was a girl that said she had Crohn’s or ulcerative colitis or one of the two. And we talked a little bit about that, and she’d kind of mentioned, like, if I don’t take my medicine at the right time of day, I end up in the hospital for two or three days. And I’m like, That’s crazy to me. Yeah.

Michael Ornelas 23:37
So I recognize that mine is fairly well tamed, but it was kind of a monster to tame at the beginning. I remember my my original doctor, or not, sorry, not the bad original doctor, but the one that took the one that took care of me in the hospital, yeah, uh, asked me, while I was in the hospital if he could write a paper on my case, because he’d not seen anything like it in terms of just the things that it was refusing to respond to, and the way that it spread and all that. So I don’t know if he ever ended up writing that paper, but as far as I know, my case was the subject of a medical paper. Interesting.

Amber Tresca 24:16
We’ll have to circle back offline so you can tell me his name. But anyway, oh gosh, yeah. Well, you never want to hear that, you know, you never want to hear that you’re the subject of a case report.

Michael Ornelas 24:30
We’ve never seen this before. Oh God. Does that mean you can’t treat it like Yeah, I hate hearing that.

Amber Tresca 24:37
And then they call on everybody else, come on in and look at this. This guy’s really weird. Yeah, oh boy, oh goodness. Well, they’re

Michael Ornelas 24:46
all laughing at me. They’re

Amber Tresca 24:47
all laughing at you. Pointy fingers. They go home. Yeah, talk about it with their friends, you know. So, all right, so we’ve talked a little bit about how you have a podcast that’s all about. Food. Not all about food, because your show goes into more than just the food, that also goes into the ambiance, and a lot more about about chain restaurants. But yeah, it’s not a natural it’s not like two puzzle pieces that would seem to fit together. So I want to know more about how having IV D has changed your relationship with food and since before your diagnosis, and then now you’re doing so well and you’re doing your show. How do you think about it now?

Michael Ornelas 25:36
So I know that I was told while I was in the hospital to avoid roughage, things with leaves, you know, things with skins, stuff like that, which was the bane of, you know, my mom has been nagging me since forever to eat healthier things. But all the things that were falling into those categories were like, don’t eat vegetables, don’t eat nuts, don’t you know, things that are a little bit healthier.

Michael Ornelas 26:04
And I know that some people react to caffeine alcohol, which I don’t drink, so that’s not an issue of, like, cutting out alcohol or anything like that. And like super fatty foods, I know can affect people that’s just been my diet, like I’ve eaten like a fifth grader at a birthday party my whole life and and like my mom was begging my GI to, like, tell me, like those things weren’t okay to eat. And he was like, well, if those aren’t causing him problems, they’re fine. And she’s like, I paid you off to say the other thing. They’re like, sorry, I can’t lie Hippocratic Oath or something. And so, yeah, I mean, I even like spicy I love really hot foods. I don’t, they don’t hurt me. There was one time it hurt me I ate a raw ghost pepper in the name of comedy once, and that was a mistake.

Amber Tresca 26:59
Yeah, for many reasons,

Michael Ornelas 27:02
for many reasons, and I did pay for that one later, maybe more related to my Crohn’s and IV D, but yeah, I’ve been fortunate that, like, you know, eating burgers or fries or kind of greasier foods don’t necessarily give me a problem. Dairy sometimes does. So that’s the one where like which, luckily I also I don’t like cheese, which is weird being someone who goes to play. I know, I know. Look, I’ve been on the defensive of this. Look, season two of my show, I bleeped the word cheese anytime someone would say I bleeped it. And

Amber Tresca 27:39
now I know why you did that? Because I did hear that was like, why are we flipping cheese? Like, what is the

Michael Ornelas 27:45
Yeah, it’s, uh, it’s gross to me. I don’t know it’s, I think it’s just like, the fact that it’s like, you just let milk go bad for way too long and you get cheese. I know there’s more to it than that, but it’s like, that doesn’t appeal to me. Who saw, like, really, like, old milk, and was like, You know what? I’m still gonna chance it like, I don’t know, no, but it’s, it’s something where, like, just a, I don’t have a heavy dairy intake, but I do notice that, like, you know, if I have milk with cereal or ice cream, then I do sometimes find myself with some symptomatic results from that, but yeah, other than that, I do feel like I’ve been lucky with what I’ve been able to get away with eating

Amber Tresca 28:35
up next Michael tells us which chain restaurant really excites him. You

Amber Tresca 28:52
Michael, let’s talk more about fine dining. Is that how you say or like? Do you put an do you put a different emphasis on it, on the syllables, than I do I say fine dining.

Michael Ornelas 29:02
I know I say fine dining, well, I mean, fine is in quotes, but it’s hard to convey because, you know, like the gimmick, like, I love chain restaurants, but it’s kind of me calling a spade a spade and acknowledging that they’re not top tier. You know, they might be your favorite, but that doesn’t mean they’re the best. So I have a mission statement of, I’m looking for the most mediocre restaurant, which also I think a lot of people think means bad, and I’m like mediocre literally just means the absence of good or bad. Just no one wants to be mediocre, yeah, but yeah. So, I mean, it’s, uh, the emphasis I put on it, as I say, fine dining, the search for the most mediocre restaurant in America, I kind of say the whole, the whole thing in one, one go.

Amber Tresca 29:51
But here’s my question, though, why? Like, what got what got you started on this? I went

Michael Ornelas 29:59
to. Yeah, I’m going to redact the name of the restaurant, but I went to one of the big chain restaurants probably eight years ago. I started the show two and a half years ago, but I went probably eight years ago, and I was like, Wow, this experience didn’t move the needle at all. It was just there. The service was just there. The ambiance is not impressive, but it’s not nothing, and the food meant nothing to me.

Michael Ornelas 30:26
And I was like, This is so mediocre. And then the friend that I was with, I kind of pitched to them. I was like, what if I did a show where I’m like, reviewing chain restaurants and scoring them from four to six, because that’s where they all belong. And I thought that was kind of a silly idea, and it kind of stuck with me. And then, like, five and a half years later, as with a different friend, I was like, hey, what do you think about this podcast idea?

Michael Ornelas 30:49
And it’s just, you know, I’ll go to a different chain restaurant each time, and I’m looking for the perfect five. And, you know, it just seems silly and an excuse to eat at all these places that I genuinely love but if I’m looking at them objectively, they’re not scoring like eight, nine and 10. It’s tongue in cheek. I view it as more of a comedy podcast than a food podcast. I have a lot of fun with it. I do a lot of silly things. I used to do a lot more silly things when the show was audio only, like I’d put skits, and I still sometimes do songs. I did a rap song about how mediocre Cracker Barrel is earlier this year that I rather enjoyed. But, yeah, it’s, it’s a creative outlet, and I genuinely get excited about an Outback Steakhouse. So well,

Amber Tresca 31:36
100% we do too. I mean, because there’s not too many of them around in Connecticut. So when we find one, we 100% go there.

Michael Ornelas 31:44
The bloomin onion is the perfect invention. Like, I don’t know the name of the individual who came up with it, but they deserve a Nobel Prize. They they made the perfect food.

Amber Tresca 31:56
So I have listened to several episodes of your show. You you do weekly, I think, right? So there’s a there’s a lot of them, I didn’t get to all of them, but you do travel sometimes that enters into the show, and you’re traveling to these different fine establishments, and travel can be difficult for people with IV D. So my question for you is, do you have any tips about traveling as you go around the country? Anyway?

Michael Ornelas 32:31
I’ve been in remission for you know, like I said, quite a long time now, 14 years I’ve been in 13 or 14 years I’ve been in remission. But the issues that I do run into, like I said, I feel like my joints and spine and hips are kind of deteriorating in a way that I’m like, Yeah, I’m never physically comfortable. And so that is an element of Crohn’s that I think conversationally, is just kind of put on the back burner. People don’t talk about that your body can’t absorb certain vitamins the right way.

Michael Ornelas 33:05
And in my case, the vitamins that strengthen bones and stuff like that. I’ve I’ve been told I struggle to keep those in my system right. So I don’t know if I have a tip beyond the you deal with it, maybe taking a leave or something like that. Yeah, it’s tough. As far as, like, the scheduling of, can I? Can I get into a philosophy that has developed in me because of Crohn’s that’s, I don’t think it’s like, crass, or it might be a little gross, but like I I will only with home field advantage. All right, if I can hold it, which I know is a struggle with IV D, but if I can hold it, I don’t care how long I have to hold it. I just want my home toilet I have up a day, you know, because cleanup can be an issue with with with a disease like this, and so being able to, you know, hit the fire hose is nice, and so that that’s an element of travel for me. But again, I do have a fortunate amount of control over my ability to hold it, that I recognize that not everyone does.

Michael Ornelas 34:25
But I remember like I felt the urge to go leaving San Francisco on a drive once, which is six hours from LA and I was like, I’m just gonna spend six hours clenching I don’t, because the alternative is a gas station. And I just, you know, I have become like single ply toilet paper is the enemy. So public restrooms, I feel un I’m not outfitted for them, or they’re not outfitted for me, and that is tough. And in the instances where I do find myself in them, I really hate it, which is why. My Travel sounds awful one because the, you know, the airplane bathroom is so compact, the toilet paper is single ply, all that stuff. It is anxiety inducing. And I would imagine that if I had less control over my urgency, I don’t know if I would commit to traveling in the way that I do, or at the very least, I would carry around my own toilet paper, and I’d be like, I go before I get on the plane. I am not chancing it on the plane, because there are no worse bathrooms than airplane bathrooms.

Amber Tresca 35:34
Well, I don’t know, man, I’ve pooped in some places, like, really, yeah, like, gas station bathrooms for sure. I mean, absolutely the worst. A lot of them don’t even offer bathrooms anymore. So you’re just kind of for myself. If I’ve really got to go, like, it’s, I’m just glad that they have one, and they carry a lot of wet wipes and Purell with me at all times, and that’s pretty Do you

Michael Ornelas 36:04
still deal with with a fair amount of urgency, and is your schedule largely dictated by your your diagnosis?

Amber Tresca 36:14
No, not really, because I’m post surgical ulcerative colitis, so I have a J pouch, and so I don’t have urgency. I, you know, haven’t the bed since I had my surgery, so I’m really grateful for that. But with a J pouch, you can’t, you can’t hold it in like, six hours that, no, that just would not work. Yeah,

Michael Ornelas 36:39
J pouch is where your small intestine kind of like, just, yeah, it just goes straight to the rectum, right? It’s,

Amber Tresca 36:47
it’s so it’s folded back on itself, like a j so I most of my rectum is gone. I have like, a little tiny bit of it left, and that folded back. Part of my terminal ileum is now like a rectum. So, yeah, yeah. So it can hold a fair amount, but you don’t want to be, you don’t want to be holding it for a long period of

Michael Ornelas 37:10
time. I know that was, that was proposed to me as a potential route I was headed towards before the Remicade started getting things under control for me back in 2010 and if I remember correctly, he just said, your life will be closer to normal, but your ability to hold it will, you know, your frequency will increase to probably six or seven times a day, is what I was told. So

Amber Tresca 37:36
yeah, and I don’t count. That’s how unmemorable it is for me. So I go in and they ask me, How often do you go to the bathroom? I’m like, her, you know, like, if I have pouchitis, which is kind of like, it’s sort of an infection, but not really of the pouch it’s a lot more than that. And then it’s, you know, more like when you have fulminant colitis, but for you, like, I had disease for 10 years before I had the surgery, so I woke up feeling better after surgery than I did going in. Yeah, you know, that’s how bad it was for you being diagnosed and then being told, like, four, six months later that you have to have surgery. Like, that’s wild. Like, I like, that would that would be really, really hard to wrap your head around with a with a first flare up that, yeah, yeah,

Michael Ornelas 38:25
it was. It was heading that way. Like he basically said, if this second batch of Remicade doesn’t take I have one more idea. And other than that, we’re probably gonna have to remove your colon. And so I was crying in a hospital bed, like, please. I hope this Remicade works. And then the second batch happened. And even then, you know, took two or three days for me to see my frequency and urgency go down. And I was like, Okay, I’m cured, right? I can leave the hospital. He’s like, No, we gotta monitor for you a while. And this thing isn’t going away, as far as we know. And I was like, cool, I love hearing that,

Amber Tresca 39:00
yeah, yeah, well, at least you got the truth at that point versus the, you know, here you have proctitis. Here’s the massacol and, like, yeah, see, in 90 days after you’re going to the bathroom 14 times a day, every single day. I mean, oh, that’s not right, yeah, it’s and it’s wild because you I was diagnosed in 1989 so to me, it feels like 2009 2010 like it should have been much better for you. It should have been much better. And I really just don’t like that, that, that it went that way for you so

Michael Ornelas 39:38
well. I mean, once I got that second doctor. I do think that my experience, I would say, was as positive as that, as it can be, from the standpoint of who’s like, attending to me. But yeah, that first doctor, he was like, an old guy, so you can tell, like, oh, he hasn’t learned anything new since 1989 you know? Yeah, he had, I think, an old school dog. After mentality of just like, you know, walk it off or whatever, I

Amber Tresca 40:03
don’t throw some dirt on it. Yeah, yeah. Coming up. Michael gives us his take on the IKEA food court.

Amber Tresca 40:21
Michael, when you go to these places, they’re, they’re, they’re, the food is the, well, I forgot what you said, the food is okay, the The ambiance is there, yeah, um, but chain restaurants aren’t necessarily known for food that is going to be compatible with IB D, or even necessarily with health. I know I even struggle sometimes, if I’m going to go to a chain restaurant, finding something that I can eat that’s not full of, like corn or mushrooms or, you know, something that you know you’re really just not or I’ve been told not to do, like, how do you order when you go to these places? I

Michael Ornelas 41:04
just think I’ve been lucky. I like, I, I don’t know. I think my remission has served me well, yeah, because, like, burgers and fries are kind of my foundation, or like, fried chicken and stuff like that, which I actually always was kind of a picky eater. Vegetables were something that, like, I kind of had to train myself and, like, get over and, you know, I will eat them. But like, stuff with those rougher textures weren’t always necessarily a big part of my diet in the first place.

Michael Ornelas 41:39
So, you know, I do, like, an annual burger tournament, and that I don’t really feel like I suffer that much because it’s largely protein, but, like, I do get, I do get veggies on them, but I don’t know I I almost feel like a jerk coming onto an IBD podcast and just saying, like, I don’t know, I eat whatever, and that’s how I’m able to do a show, and you can’t, because your body doesn’t react the same way as mine. But I mean that that kind of is my my truth, a little bit of like, I’ve just been lucky if I haven’t been super reactive.

Michael Ornelas 42:13
Other than, like I said, dairy, which not liking cheese helps, because dairy, I think, is the easiest one to avoid. And even then, I can have a little bit so, like, you know, a buttered bun or piece of toast or something like that, usually doesn’t give me a problem. It’s like, if I’m straight up drinking, like a bowl of or a cup of milk, that’s what people drink out of I’m not a dog. I was envisioning. I was envisioning after the cereal is gone. Yeah, that just ended. I drink a bowl of Coca Cola and like, yeah, so, like, a milkshake is the thing where I kind of have to be if I have one, I have to recognize, to not make plans later. Yeah? Because, because I already have planned,

Amber Tresca 43:04
because you made that choice, yeah, you know, I think it’s great, though, I think, I mean, you really suffered in the beginning, and you know, what you went through was not great, was not great. And obviously it has effects that you’re still living with today, with coping with the osteopenia. So I think the fact that you can eat what you like is amazing. And I and I think it’s, it’s a success story. So I think it’s actually perfect for for this, for this show. So that’s how I’m thinking about it.

Michael Ornelas 43:37
Good, good, good.

Amber Tresca 43:38
All right, you were hospitalized that one time, were you hospitalized any other times?

Michael Ornelas 43:43
Nope, beyond, just like when I, I think the first few Remicade infusions, I went to a hospital before I found, like, an infusion center, yeah, but, but after that, you know, the only times I’ve been in the hospital or, like, oh, go get a colonoscopy, and it’s just at a center for that. But no, no hospitalizations, no noteworthy flare ups. I had a couple that, you know, nothing sent me to the hospital. It was just kind of like I’m uncomfortable for a few days.

Michael Ornelas 44:12
You know, cramping used to be a pretty big problem for me, like it would get pretty debilitating. But even that seems to have largely subsided. I get a little bit more leniency at work when I when I’ll, like, go in for a job and I’ll just be like, Hey, I have this condition if I go take a bathroom break, it might be longer than the average person’s, you know, but beyond that, but, but that also just might be, I’m very, uh, particular and diligent about, about cleanup, yeah, so it’s just like, you know, I just don’t want to, I don’t walk. Want to walk around uncomfortable. So yeah,

Amber Tresca 44:49
100% Yeah, because I was gonna ask you if you would ever consider doing hospital food on your show

Michael Ornelas 44:56
if I am hospitalized, it is a very real possible. Already, I don’t, I don’t know if I want to visit a hospital, just to review that, that said, I have done like the Planet Hollywood outside of the gate at LAX, there’s like one on the on the side of security, you’re allowed to be on without a ticket. And I’ve reviewed, like I just did the IKEA Food Court, which felt weirdly medical. That episode will come out in in January. But

Amber Tresca 45:29
that’s funny. I just, I don’t know. I mean, I don’t want you to end up in the hospital, but I just feel like, if you ever run out of chain restaurants, you could just start doing hospitals.

Michael Ornelas 45:37
I’m shocked at how many I still have that I haven’t gotten to like and like common like, big ones, common ones that everyone knows I’ve just, you know, because I do, I do one every two weeks, but I do two part episodes. The first one I cover, like, the brand history and stuff, and kind of tell the story of, like, here’s how, you know, this chain became what it is. Here’s the story of it. And then I read some Yelp reviews, and then the next week I give my review, but they’re usually like an hour each, so it’s 45 minutes to an hour, so it’s, there’s a lot of content and a lot of history to these places and stuff. So I have a very long list of chains that I still can do

Amber Tresca 46:16
that’s, that’s good to hear because it is a very funny premise, and hearing about the backstories of some of these change. I think I was listening to the one on wings at Pizza Hut. Okay, that was the wildest story. It just didn’t make any sense. Yeah. And having been to a lot of Pizza Huts, I don’t think I’ve ever seen one that had wings. So it was just like,

Michael Ornelas 46:41
What interesting? Yeah, I, at least when I drive around here, all of them are Pizza Hut wing Street and, like, both signs are on the building. And even Connecticut,

Amber Tresca 46:54
we don’t have a lot of, like, there’s not a lot of chains. Where I am, I don’t know why in particular,

Michael Ornelas 47:00
I’m a big advocate of ghost support, Mom and Pop restaurants like those are, those are the businesses I care about. I just have a lot of nostalgia for chains. And, you know, their stories are all interesting to me. And, you know, learning who invented what? TGI Fridays invented potato skins. Gordon Biersch invented garlic fries, stuff like that, where it’s like, oh, it’s a common say. Chick fil A claims to have invented the chicken sandwich, and it’s like, really, you’re the first person to put chicken on bread. You’re the first one, okay, if you say so. But yeah, I don’t know they. They interest me, and I think that they are a part of our culture as well. You know, so, so many people have experiences at these places, good, bad, mediocre, whatever you still know of them, yeah, 100%

Amber Tresca 47:48
so I went, I went deep into your back catalog, because I was looking at the different chains and just fight, you know, finding the ones That interested me most to listen to. And I saw that you did medieval times, all right, well, which

Michael Ornelas 48:07
I will say one of the lowest scoring places I’ve been to.

Amber Tresca 48:12
And you were at the castle that is, it in LA, where, no Where

Michael Ornelas 48:17
is Park. It’s south of LA. It’s where Knott’s Berry Farm is. It’s not super far from Disneyland. Okay,

Amber Tresca 48:24
all right, so I’ve only been to LA once, but I know what you’re talking about. And the reason why I listened to it, Michael is because my husband and I were married at the New Jersey medieval times castle. So it was very funny to listen to the episode and the descriptions of the food and the show. And I get I was married in 1999 so very, very different time, very different place, different castles. When you were there, there was actually a strike going on, which I did not know anything about. So I was actually really interested to listen to the episode, to learn about that. But I think,

Michael Ornelas 49:12
because that was a long time ago, and the results of the strike are kind of sad,

Amber Tresca 49:16
it’s yeah, it was a lot in and I understood it, and I got married 25 years ago. So I don’t know what’s been going on at the lynnhurst castle since I got married there, but our experience there was, well, they were lovely to work with. To, you know, we got the actual the ceremony. Everything was there. We thought the show was great, our night one, you know, the the area that we sat in was black and white, and it was so funny, because it never even occurred to me that, yeah, if you have your wedding there the night where you’re sitting, yeah, that night should win, right? Yeah. Didn’t even occur to me. I was 26 years old. Maybe, you know, a little dumber than I am now. I. Um, but, and then we did go back. We did go back for our 15th anniversary. And, you know, brought some folks with us. And we had not on the same level, but we kind of had, like, a little room to ourselves where we sat to celebrate, to celebrate that. And

Michael Ornelas 50:16
we, like the amber and Gladiator like you, like you held your thumb up and then turned it down and made the head at one of the nights they all look up to you. Should I finish him?

Amber Tresca 50:25
And Well, the story at the time when we got married, I don’t remember it all, but what they did at that time was that the night that one would come into that section and then pull a lady from that side, very heteronormative, but pull, you know. And usually they would pull like a little girl, right, you know. And then she would get to go up to the head where they had the king and the queen, because they had, you know, King and the Queen in that storyline, or whatever. And of course, because we were there and I got married that day, like I got to be the person that got pulled up and again, did not occur to me. That is something that would, that would occur, that it just makes sense, but it didn’t occur to me this time. But anyway, um, I mean, we had a great time. People still tell me how much they loved my wedding. I didn’t have problem with food. Um, so, yeah. So I just wanted to to talk to you a little bit about that, about the contrasting experiences that we had.

Michael Ornelas 51:30
Yeah. So what’s interesting is the strike leader, you know, the the name of my episode, I think, is knights on strike, but so they are one of two unionized medieval times casts, and the other one is at the Lynnwood New Jersey one, okay, and the woman who was the strike Captain here is the one that organized the New Jersey one before coming here, okay, And so she’s probably not beloved by the company, but they struck for like, a year, and early in the negotiations, the company told them, Well, we have what you’re asking for, like we can afford to pay you that we just don’t want to, which is not Great, yeah.

Michael Ornelas 52:19
And so I understand their frustrations. They’re being asked to jump off of moving horses, and, you know, they have all these specialized roles and stuff like that, and they’re asking for a higher, more livable wage. They’re not getting that, so they went on strike, and the company bust in scabs from the a few different locations, but mostly I want to say Scottsdale, Arizona, since it’s the closest one to Buena Park, and those were largely the ones doing the show. Anyone who wanted a refund as a result of the picketers outside were offered one.

Michael Ornelas 52:59
I had a group of 11 that we drove almost two hours with the time of day and traffic to arrive and discover the strike. And like, you know, we’re we’re doing this episode, and we come to a picket line, which is horrible to it feels horrible to cross then, and it’s not something that I would do if I wasn’t making a show about it or there to review it, but I basically negotiated with the strike Captain like, Hey, can we interview you and let you say your piece on your position, and then we will go in and we will objectively talk about what we see and how we feel and all this. And you know, will give plenty of air to the strike and all that. And she agreed and encouraged us to go in, and so and three of my friends still didn’t want to, so they, you know, didn’t go in.

Michael Ornelas 53:55
But you know, I mean, it’s tough for a place like that when you because, like, it’s parents taking their kids, their kids don’t understand a strike, their kids don’t understand. Well, this is my birthday. Why wouldn’t you know? Why wouldn’t we go in so, you know, people are still crossing the picket line, and it’s, it’s awful. It sucks. The food I just thought was, I’ll say this, it was thematically appropriate for, yeah, you know, the way I describe it, you know, they start with, like a thermos of basically strange spaghettio broth, and they pour it into a little bowl, and they’re like, here’s tomato soup.

Michael Ornelas 54:32
And I’m like, okay, and then they give you, like a microwave piece of garlic bread, and then they serve you baby dragon. Tastes like chicken. It is chicken, and it was just some of the most unevenly cooked chicken. You know, it comes out in this giant tin tray. And some people get extra, like two juicy chicken. Some people get bone dry chicken, and it’s, it’s just not good. And then their their cake tasted like, like tire. Amber, or at least the consistency of it. But, like, I don’t know you ever have, like, a store bought chocolate cake that you’re like, oh, that tastes toxic. Yeah, that’s how I would describe it. Was just, it was, it was bad food, because they mass prep food for an arena full of people. It’s not like, it’s made to order, yeah.

Michael Ornelas 55:17
And so it’s a tough undertaking, but like, at the end of the day, when I’m comparing it against the nicest restaurants I’ve been to and the worst restaurants I’ve been to, it has much more in common with the worst. And then you you put on top of that a strike it was a recipe for not an enjoyable time that said, I love the episode that I made about it. There were some skits in there that were almost like Shakespearean about, you know, imposters taking over a castle that was very emblematic of what was going on. I made like a, like a metal style song about slaying baby dragons. So it was, you know, artistically fun, but not a good restaurant,

Amber Tresca 55:59
yeah. Yeah. And then you ended up doing some investigative journalism while you were there, which was so interesting, which you probably didn’t expect to do on your show.

Michael Ornelas 56:08
And then after a year of striking, they went back to work and did not get the changes that they wanted. So that is upsetting, but they were like, we feel like maybe we can instigate more change while working with them than striking against them. So I do hope that they get something out of it. But it seemed like the corporate overlords won

Amber Tresca 56:30
that day, which you would not think that medieval times corporate overlords, I don’t know. I just wouldn’t think of it that way. But I guess peasants need to revolt. The peasants are revolting. I we were planning on going back for our 25th anniversary, but I kind of feel like maybe we might just to see, because now I’m curious to see if my recollection is really indicative of how the food was and everything, or if I was just you’re there celebrating, and so it didn’t bother me, or didn’t make an impression, or, I mean, honestly, I probably didn’t even really eat, you know, when we were there, quite frankly. So yeah, maybe we’ll go back again and think about that some more.

Amber Tresca 57:15
Well, Michael, thank you so much for coming on and for discussing your Crohn’s disease journey with me, I or I’ll shift colitis journey. We don’t know. Who knows could be either one. But I want to finish up first by you telling all of the peoples that are listening where they can find fine dining and where they can follow you across social media. So I’m

Michael Ornelas 57:41
at Fine Dining Podcast on Instagram and Tiktok. I just post clips of my episodes there. I do like fully produce it as a YouTube show. I’ve got a nice little set for it, and put way more work into it than I probably should. But that is podcasting. You get it. You know what the deal is.

Amber Tresca 58:00
I know the deal.

Michael Ornelas 58:02
And, yeah, it’s super fun. I have a different comedian guest every week. I just had iffy Wadi way from dropout, formally College Humor. He hosts the show, um, actually, and flew with me to Denver, Colorado to eat at a place called Casa Bonita, which was, yeah, featured in a South Park episode pretty prominently. And the guys who own South Park bought Casa Bonita and renovated it during the pandemic. They put $42 million into it, not realizing that that’s how expensive it would be. Reopened, I spent 10 months on the wait list.

Michael Ornelas 58:39
Finally got my number called it reached out to him on his website. Was like, Hey, you don’t know me, but you want to go to Denver. And he was like, for Casa Bonita, sure. Like, I flat out didn’t know him. I just reached out through the contact me thing on his website. And so he and his wife, and then me and my girlfriend flew out, and it was a black like, genuinely, it was one of the most fun dining experiences I’ve ever had, even if the food was I’d say it was a little better than okay, but like the the atmosphere, the vibe, the attractions that they have are just so fun. S

Michael Ornelas 59:11
o I highly recommend, even if you just put your name on the wait list for Casa Bonita at this point, I think it’s a worthwhile trip, and so I’m releasing episodes on that right now. I don’t know when this comes out, but it is my season three premiere, which is, uh, November 6 and 13th. Are those two episodes, right?

Amber Tresca 59:30
Right? I did listen to that first one, so, yeah, scary, and I had forgotten. I did know about the connection to South Park, but I had forgotten about it, so I was like, custom. But you know what’s that? And then listening, I’m like, oh right, oh yeah, okay, yeah, it’s all coming back so well. Thank you so much for coming on my show. Thank you for the work that you’re doing. It. It’s been

Michael Ornelas 59:54
people need to know most mediocre that’s important.

Amber Tresca 59:59
I. It’s a journey. You have a pretty extensive back catalog. So anybody that’s finding your show for the first time is going to find a lot of really great nuggets in there for them. So I encourage everyone to go and subscribe wherever you’re listening to this show, you are going to be able to find fine dining and then also on the Instagrams and the YouTubes so that you can get the video content as well. So thank you, Michael, thank you so much for coming on my show and for giving such insight into your Crohn’s disease journey and telling me a little bit more about fine dining

Michael Ornelas 1:00:36
Awesome. Thank you, Amber.

Amber Tresca 1:00:42
Hey, super listener. Thanks to Michael Ornelas for being my guest and for making me laugh so much, not only on this episode, but also while listening to fine dining. Wherever you are subscribed to this show, you can also subscribe to fine dining. You can also find him on the YouTubes. You’ll not only get Michael’s experience at chain restaurants, but also the history of these franchises and the food they serve, which is fascinating. I recommend you smash that subscribe or follow button on fine dining, because coming up on the December episodes Michael visits Arctic Circle. Arctic Circle is a burger chain in Utah and seven other states that I have never heard of. Oh, and his guests for these episodes will be Santa Claus himself, as always, links to a written transcript everyone’s social media handles, and more information on the topics we discussed is in the show notes and on my episode. 164 page on about IB d.com

Amber Tresca 1:01:36
thanks for listening, and remember until next time, I want you to know more about IBD.

Amber Tresca 1:01:44

About IBD is a production of Mal and Tal Enterprises.

It is written, produced, and directed by me, Amber Tresca.

Mix and sound design is by Mac Cooney.

Theme music is from Cooney Studio. 

Amber Tresca 1:02:00
Anything else that you want to

Michael Ornelas 1:02:03
I don’t think so.

Amber Tresca 1:02:03
Cover.

Michael Ornelas 1:02:04
I talked about [bleeping] myself in a crosswalk. I think I’m good.

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