About IBD Podcast Episode 151 The Harms of Copay Accumulators

The Harms of Copay Accumulators – About IBD Podcast Episode 151

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Did you notice that suddenly one year you started paying more for your healthcare? Crohn’s disease and ulcerative colitis are sometimes treated with medications that are expensive. Manufacturers create programs to help patients afford these drugs. In the beginning, these payments from assistance programs counted toward a yearly health insurance deductible. Then, suddenly: they stopped counting. Overnight, patients found themselves responsible for more costs, while insurance carriers received what amounts to double payments. A 2023 court ruling says that this practice should be reversed again, but it’s not happening. Amber McCown tells her story of how a copay accumulator program took her by surprise and why she’s partnering with the HIV+Hepatitis Policy Institute and working with legislators and agencies to advocate for change.

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From the HIV+Hepatitis Policy Institute:

In 2022, the HIV+Hepatitis Policy Institute, two diabetes groups, and individual chronic disease patients filed a lawsuit in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia challenging the federal rule that allowed “copay accumulators.”

Insurers use “copay accumulator” programs to avoid counting the value of copay coupons that patients get from drug manufacturers toward a patient’s deductible and out-of-pocket costs — effectively double charging the patients.

In 2023, the court ruled in favor of the plaintiffs and struck down the federal rule that had allowed health insurers to avoid counting copay assistance from drug manufacturers toward a patient’s out-of-pocket cost. 

But the government isn’t enforcing the court’s ruling, so patients are still subject to copay accumulator schemes. It’s bad enough that the federal government is effectively ignoring a court ruling. Far worse is the fact that patients are still being unjustly subjected to copay accumulators that prevent them from being able to afford their prescription drugs as a result. Patients need the federal government to issue a new rule ASAP.

Find Amber J Tresca at:

Find Mac Cooney (mix, sound design, and theme music) at:

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[Music: IBD Dance Party]

Transcript

Amber Tresca  00:00

Hi. I’m Amber Tresca and this is about IBD.

Amber Tresca  00:07

I’m a medical writer and patient educator who lives with a J pouch due to ulcerative colitis. It’s my mission to educate people living with Crohn’s disease or ulcerative colitis about their disease, and to bring awareness to the patient journey.

Amber Tresca  00:19

Welcome to Episode 151.

Amber Tresca  00:22

The topic for this episode is what the insurance companies called copay accumulators. Some of the medications used to treat IBD and other immune mediated conditions are expensive. This is especially true for brand name medications that don’t have a generic or biosimilar available. For this reason, drug manufacturers have put copay savings programs into place to help patients afford these medications. Originally, the payments made by the drug manufacturers via their patient assistance programs counted towards a patient’s deductible and out of pocket maximums.

Amber Tresca  00:58

But that changed in 2018. When insurance companies and pharmacy benefit managers stopped counting the payments from copay savings programs towards deductibles. Overnight, patients who were relying on manufacturer copay programs experienced higher health care costs. Insurance companies are collecting payment for the name brand medication and also collecting the deductible from patients.

Amber Tresca  01:25

In 2021 copay accumulators were officially allowed by a federal ruling and more than 80% of insurance carriers adopted their use. It’s estimated that more than 40% of insured patients are subjected to a copay accumulator program. However, their implementation has not been consistent.

Amber Tresca  01:46

In 2023, the HIV and hepatitis Policy Institute and others brought a case against the 2021 ruling and it was ultimately struck down as of this recording 21 states and the District of Columbia ban or restrict copay accumulator programs. However, insurance carriers continue to not count copay savings programs towards patient deductibles. Some of the reasons that they give can include receiving a medication that has a generic or a biosimilar available, and if an insurance carrier deems a medication as being not medically necessary.

Amber Tresca  02:25

My guest is Amber McCown. Amber was thrilled when her husband got a new job and with it a better insurance plan. She receives medications for her Crohn’s disease and other conditions. However, her carrier has inconsistently applied a copay accumulator program. This took her by surprise at the start of a new calendar year and left her on the hook for higher health care costs.

Amber Tresca  02:48

Amber tells her story of how a copay accumulator program has affected her life and caused her stress. Plus she talks about the steps she’s taken to address the problem and gives her suggestions if you are being subjected to a copay accumulator program yourself.

Amber Tresca  03:07

Amber, thank you so much for coming on about IBD I’m so excited to speak with you.

Amber McCown  03:11

I’m happy to be here.

Amber Tresca  03:12

Great. So the first thing I’m going to do is ask you to introduce yourself. Your name is Amber. My name is Amber. Hopefully that’s not too confusing. I know it is to me. But would you tell us a little bit about yourself?

Amber McCown  03:24

All right. Amber McCown. I’m 38. I married no kids, I’ve got five pets. So those are kind of my kids. Two dogs, three cats. I’ve got Crohn’s, IBS, I also have a mild kidney failure. That’s not the end of my list. But those are the most relevant problems I have. I work a part time job. I have a bachelor’s degree in biology, for the most part, pretty happy with my life. Love my husband. He’s amazing. He’s been amazing through absolutely everything even We were together for years before we got married and he was in it from pretty much day one.

Amber Tresca  04:14

I love that you have that support. It is so helpful, especially when dealing with the ups and downs of living with Crohn’s disease and the other conditions that you also have. And I want to dig more into your Crohn’s disease journey first. So I wonder if you would tell me a little bit about how that all started for you what your symptoms were like and how old were you and how you were diagnosed?

Amber McCown  04:42

Sure. I was diagnosed when I was about 12 or 13, which would have been around 97 or 98. So well I live in a pretty big city in the Midwest. I don’t live in Unlike the biggest metropolis so we did not have a pediatric gastroenterologist in my city, we had to drive across the state to see one. And I had been sick with gastro problems, most of my childhood just constant stomach aches and frequent vomiting to be fairly blunt. I figured this is a pretty blunt topic. Absolutely not a lot of sugarcoating this.

Amber Tresca  05:32

No.

Amber McCown  05:32

And it was pretty much literally, as soon as I started grade school, that I started having problems. And nobody could tell me what was wrong with me until they finally decided to send me nearly out of state to see a specialist and have my first scope. Azzam and they’re like, and wasn’t that an experience for a 12 year old to, you know, fast for two days, because it’s your first one. So they want to make extra sure that you’re completely ready. So I absolutely know solid for two days.

Amber McCown  06:13

And they sat us, me and my parents down, and they’re like, you have Crohn’s. And we’re like, what’s that? Because we’d never heard that word before. And they’re like, well, it’s this your body is trying to is attacking itself in a very, very specific way. And you can’t do this, and you can’t do this. And you’re going to need this. And we’re going to put you on steroids for months at a time because we have no other treatments for you. At this time. We did our best we did the treatments.

Amber McCown  06:48

We manage my diet as best as we could. And it felt like we were always getting information a day late. Yeah, like, Okay, we’re gonna put you on steroids for months at a time, and not tell you to restrict your sodium intake, until you call us wondering why your daughter is blowing up like a balloon right after she ate a can of Pringles, maybe you should restrict your sodium intake, I will gladly follow instructions. If I have them.

Amber McCown  07:19

It’s really hard to manage a thing when your doctor is across the state, and you can’t see him except for maybe once a year or every other year, because you literally cannot afford to travel to see him. And there’s no there’s no telehealth to sort of bridge the gap. And it’s just you and your GP. And you’re far off gastroenterologist trying to make this work. And you’re just so thrilled when they they get pediatric gastroenterologist intern in town when I turned 16, or 17.

Amber McCown  08:01

And they’re finally like, you know what, you’re old enough to see an adult specialist. I’m like, thank God, because then I can, you know, see someone talk to someone when I need to. Because by that point, I’d seen a number of doctors. And I was already to the point where I decided to take charge of as much as my health care as I could. And I had my GP find me a, and she found me one of the premier specialists in the country who just happened to be in my city. And I’ve had him since then. And he’s been an absolute champion, one of the kindest men you will ever meet.

Amber Tresca  08:45

Oh, that’s amazing. I’m so glad you had a few bumps there in the journey, but you finally got to where you needed to be. I’m gonna pivot now to the reason that we got connected. And that’s because you have become subject to what’s called a copay accumulator program. And a lot of people will be familiar with this already. And this has to do with how you’re receiving your medication and who’s paying for it. But I wonder if you would take a minute to explain a little bit about what a copay accumulator program is.

Amber McCown  09:22

Yes, it is an amazing pain in the butt to deal with. It is a scheme by the insurance companies to milk more money out of patients. So you have your deductible and say you’re like us and you have these outrageously expensive medications. For me. It’s Stelara which is an immunosuppressant my house we’re big fans, we always sort of hoot and holler when it comes on commercials. Yes to Laura. But it is outrageously expensive. It’s like $20,000 for one dose, and I get this dose every eight weeks, so about six times a year.

Amber McCown  10:13

Now, the company who makes this knows it’s outrageously expensive. And they will help you pay for it. They will calculate how much your insurance is going to pay for it. And then they will chip in pretty much the rest of it. I my out of pocket is five bucks.

Amber Tresca  10:31

Right.

Amber McCown  10:32

Excellent deal. Right. Awesome. And that’s not like a coupon that is real money they are paying to your specialty pharmacy is not like a buy one get one free. It is real money they are paying to your pharmacy. Yeah, it’s called a copay assistance program. Most people with these drugs will know what this is, yeah, they pay your insurance pay, bam, your medicine shows up, you’re good to go. Now, what usually happens when you don’t have a copay accumulator plan is that copay assistance goes towards your deductible. And for a lot of people that first dose kills their copay kills their max out of pocket. And they’re set for the rest of the year. Right? It takes care of basically everything.

Amber McCown  11:24

But this copay accumulator program, they ignore that copay assistance, it does not go towards your deductible, it might as well not have happened, it still pays for your medication, it still goes towards that pharmacy. But it does not go towards your copay, right. So anything, any other medical stuff you have to pay for, you have to keep chugging along, paying for that deductible, until you meet it until you meet that max out of pocket. And eventually, you’ll you’ll meet that deductible, hopefully, and then you’ll start getting the benefits of having that deductible and that max out of pocket met.

Amber McCown  12:06

But that’s the difference between that’s 1000s of dollars for me, my deductible, my personal deductible is $3,000. And my max out of pocket is I think over $4,000. And they just get to say that real money that got paid towards my shot doesn’t count. And I think that that is beyond insane. And apparently, I’m not the only one.

Amber Tresca  12:37

No, you’re definitely not the only one. And I think when they say when insurance companies started doing this, it caught people off balance as well. Because previously, these pharmacy assistance programs were being counted towards your deductible, and then all of a sudden, one year they’re not.

Amber McCown  12:58

Absolutely.

Amber Tresca  12:59

…and then you’re on the hook.

Amber McCown  13:01

Yeah.

Amber Tresca  13:01

You plan for it. Yeah.

Amber McCown  13:03

When you have an autoimmune disease, you rarely just have that one thing wrong. For starters, they tend to attack.

Amber Tresca  13:13

Yeah.

Amber McCown  13:14

Autoimmune diseases tend to run in packs. For some reason, too. If you already have autoimmune disease, even if you don’t have other autoimmune diseases, you tend to have other things wrong with you, largely because of the autoimmune disease like me. It’s the mild kidney failure or kidney disease is probably because of those months of steroids. I was on when we had no other treatment when I was 12 or 13.

Amber McCown  13:45

It’s just a theory. But it’s been one that my nephrologist has not shaking his head at so. So there’s that. And then there’s the IBS, which is different from my Crohn’s, but probably not unrelated. And because I’m on an immunosuppressant, I catch everything. So you have all these things wrong with you. So it’d be really nice. If one to two months into the year, I can knock my deductible out, like I’m used to doing and have been doing. For the last several years I’ve been on whichever immunosuppressant biologic that I’ve been on. Because they’re all expensive.

Amber Tresca  14:30

Even the ones that are less expensive are still expensive.

Amber McCown  14:36

So you plan for these sorts of things, right?

Amber Tresca  14:40

And it wasn’t like they sent you a letter or anything like that. Right? It was just all the sudden, yeah, I noticed that your deductible was not knocked out with that first dose that you received in January.

Amber McCown  14:53

Yeah. And double problematically speaking of notice, I have my insurance through my husband’s work, which I am blessed that he has a new job, I’m thrilled that he has this job. And I’m blessed to have insurance, I want to make that clear, I am thrilled that I have insurance. I know some people don’t. And that’s a whole different problem, right? Last year, he started his job, like a third of the way through the year. So he got his insurance almost halfway through the year.

Amber McCown  15:23

So we got my first shot on the new insurance, you know, quite a ways into the year. And they sort of, they kind of forgot to not apply it to my deductible. So I ended up applying to my deductible, and I was set. And everything was hunky dory for the whole rest of the year. And then the New Year, flipped over. And suddenly, not so hot. Not so great. Yeah, I had a brand new health problem, thanks to COVID, long COVID that I’m still dealing with.

Amber McCown  15:55

And I’m like, Okay, I’ve got this mapped out in my head, I can make the sample last until here. My shot will kill the deductible. I’ll get the new super expensive, but not as expensive medication here, because my deductible will be met, and then I can afford the medication. Well, the shot didn’t kill the deductible like I was expecting. So I couldn’t get that new medication that was working on the new medical problem.

Amber McCown  16:26

And I’m like, What the heck is going on? This worked fine last year. And they’re like, oh, yeah, you’ve got this thing. And I’m like, Well, why didn’t I have this thing last year? And they’re like, we forgot. So we just didn’t do anything about it last year. And I’m like, you’ve you’ve got, but now, but you be sure not to forget this year. So you can screw me.

Amber Tresca  16:50

It’s it’s also had a knock on effect. Absolutely. It sounds to me that you are you’re thinking about all of these things. You’re thinking about how to best manage your healthcare in a cost effective way. But the insurance company is engaging in malfeasance and not meeting you even halfway. And then also not letting you in on their policies. They’re just changing it in the middle of everything.

Amber McCown  17:18

Pretty much. I mean, technically, it’s all there in black and white. If you go looking for it, like Yeah, it’s there. But But like, you forgot to do this thing last year. So I thought I was okay.

Amber Tresca  17:34

Right.

Amber McCown  17:34

But you made sure to do it this year. And now, so many of my plans are screwed up.

[MUSIC: About IBD Piano Transition]

Amber Tresca  17:45

Coming up next, how the copay accumulator program is affecting Amber and her family.

Amber Tresca  18:02

Alright, so let’s talk a little bit about stress. Because I want to understand, I want to understand a little more deeply about how this is affecting you emotionally, how it’s affecting your family, and how it might be taking away time away from the things that you want to do. And then also causing you stress, which, as we know, can also affect the conditions that you live with.

Amber McCown  18:29

Absolutely. So every phone call with these people for any reason, not just this reason, but any reason is a practice in self control and meditation, like you would not believe I gotten off the phone, furious to the point of sobbing. I’ve thrown my phone across the room. I do my best not to scream and cuss at the person I’m talking to because it’s rarely their faults. Yeah, the person I’m talking to has no control over policy. They can’t change it.

Amber McCown  19:12

But sometimes it’s like if I hear you haven’t met your deductible one more time. I’m gonna break my phone in half. It won’t solve anything. But in my mind, I feel better for a second until I have to replace my phone. Yeah, but yeah, it’s like, oh, yeah, your medication. The medication you want is $300 because you haven’t met your deductible yet.

Amber Tresca  19:35

Yeah.

Amber McCown  19:35

And it’s like, I go around and around and around in circles. And I just want to pull my hair out. And some days it feels like trying to chew through drywall to make a door and it can take hours to get anything done. Even things Things I know, are supposed to get done within my policy, like just ordering my shot can take over an hour, because I have to coordinate it with the insurance company, the specialty pharmacy, and the company that makes the shot to make sure everybody’s on the same page so that it gets paid for, or delivered on time.

Amber McCown  20:28

And nobody wants to talk to each other. They all want to talk to me, right? And I feel like a kindergarten teacher. Like everybody’s fighting, and nobody’s talking to each other. And that’s just one, one of my medications I take so many. So hours on the phone, when I could be doing literally anything else cleaning, I’d rather be cleaning my house. I hate cleaning anything else.

Amber Tresca  20:57

I feel that deeply though. Because sometimes I just want to clean my house. Like I don’t want to be on the phone with these people, the insurance company and everybody else and I would just clean something.

Amber McCown  21:10

And my poor husband is watching this happen. And there’s nothing he can do because he cannot fight this fight for me. Yeah, he can be in my corner. He can have a beer ready for me when I am done. But he cannot make these calls for me because they will talk to him about any of this. No matter how many times I tell them they can.

Amber Tresca  21:33

Yeah.

Amber McCown  21:33

So and he sees me stressed out and he gets stressed out. And it’s just all the stress.

Amber Tresca  21:40

Amber, you’ve been working to raise awareness of copay accumulators and how they’re affecting you how they’re affecting other patients and their families. You don’t have to do this. So what made you decide to become public about your situation?

Amber McCown  21:53

Well, when I first discovered that they were doing this to me, I thought there is no way that this can be properly legal. How is this legal when they’re getting cash money from somebody? Just not me? What does it matter who they’re getting the money from?

Amber Tresca  22:14

Right.

Amber McCown  22:15

So I do what I usually do. When I’m troubled about something, I Googled it. And I found a court case from September that the HIV and hepatitis Policy Institute and others brought against a rule that the Trump administration passed, and the rule was that they could do this. And the HIV and hepatitis Policy Institute. Were not much pleased with this rule.

Amber McCown  22:53

Because if you think Crohn’s drugs are expensive, you should see HIV and hepatitis drug prices, because yeah, they’re more expensive. And they won that court case. The decision was, if your name brand drug, you know, like Stelara, doesn’t have a generic, like store, yet, not supposed to be allowed to disregard the copay assistance for patients deductible.

Amber McCown  23:27

And I felt two things. In that moment. I felt that giddy sort of when emotion you get when you see a bully trounced. And then I felt another wave of fury, because they’re still doing this to me. They’re doing it. It’s against the law. It was ruled against in a federal court in the District Court of Columbia. Federally, I want to emphasize, and they’re still doing it to me. And I can’t be alone.

Amber Tresca  23:59

So, I want to talk about also, what you’ve been doing personally, as you said, there was a court case, there are plenty of patient advocacy groups that are working on this issue, and they have been for a long time. Aside from working with HIV and hepatitis Policy Institute. Have you been working with any of your legislators, either local or federal? Do you write letters? Does the does the HIV and hepatitis Policy Institute recommend that patients do anything? I guess I’m just kind of maybe grasping at straws, like what like, what can we do because we’re all being financially penalized by something that we shouldn’t be?

Amber McCown  24:40

Right? Well, they recommended that I reached out to my state’s right Insurance Commissioner, which I did, and they got me in touch with someone who arranged this interview. I reached out to my state’s Insurance Commissioner, and they got back to me and said, not our department because it’s insurance provided by employment. Okay, we’re going to transfer this case over to the United States Department of Labor. Okay. So we’re literally going to make a federal case out of this. Good luck.

Amber Tresca  25:18

…that’s already been made a federal case out of but yeah, yeah,

Amber McCown  25:21

We’re gonna make another federal case out of this good luck. Okay. But basically, yeah, this kind of sucks, but not our problem. We’re gonna pass you along just someone whose problem it actually is, especially because the company My husband works for is a national company. Okay, that was?

Amber McCown  25:43

Yeah, it can’t just be the state’s Department of Labor, it has to be the United States Department of Labor. Right. And they’re like someone from the United States Department of Labor, she called and said, I’ve got your case, we’ll see what we can do. And she’s been giving me regular, still working on it. No updates, updates. Okay. I got a letter from my insurance company saying,

Amber McCown  26:14

We’re sorry, you feel this way about the copay accumulator program. But we’re not going to do anything about it. And I’m like, okay, Ed, for a second there, I panicked a little. But then I remembered, the US Department of Labor hasn’t finished yet. So that was probably just from the state commissioner. Investigation part. So like, that was their notice of, we heard your complaint, too bad. So sad. We’re not gonna do anything about it.

Amber McCown  26:44

And I’m like, and for a second there, I was a little panicky, like, crap, what do I do next. And then I realized the state insurance commissioner did do something wrong. Did, you know file a complaint and all that, but then it turned out they couldn’t do anything. Because it wasn’t their department. And since I haven’t been told that the US Department of Labor was finished with their side, this was probably not the end.

Amber McCown  27:11

And so I’m waiting to hear back from the Department of Labor. And we’ll see how that goes. If they think they can shake me with too bad. So sad letters. We don’t care that you don’t like this, then they don’t know my history with local government. Because this is not my first rodeo with making things happen with local government.

Amber Tresca  27:40

Yeah, and you’re not willing to let it go, which I think sometimes the delay tactics are, that’s what they are hoping for is that you will just kind of give up and frankly, there are people that kind of just give up on getting their medication, because of these types of tactics. So absolutely, yeah. So I’m glad to hear that you’re not going to stop. Because it’s going to benefit you, of course, but it’s going to benefit all patients in this situation and the IBD community especially. And so to that end, I’m wondering if you have any advice for other patients who are finding themselves in this situation? Do you have any recommendations?

Amber McCown  28:21

I haven’t been successful yet. But I’m certainly hoping to be and my best advice is, reach out to your doctor’s office, and their office manager is a treasure trove of resources. Mine has been an amazing champion. For me against my insurance, no matter what my insurance is doing. Take every problem, one problem at a time. I can’t afford to give up. I can’t afford not to take these medications, and I can’t afford the medications on my own. So I can’t afford to give up.

Amber McCown  29:06

So that kind of scrappy hunger, make them pay because you can’t afford to is kind of the attitude you have to go into all of these situations and hoping for the light at the end of the tunnel tunnel because there is no other way to live. Because if you you go in with despair, ready, you’re gonna hit that dead end, you’re gonna run out of energy to keep fighting. Also, a support structure is an amazing asset. I could not do this without my husband standing in my corner, my friends, they’ve really could not do this without them.

Amber Tresca  29:49

Thank you so much for that advice. That’s really important what you said about sticking with things and making sure that you’re keeping your head up during this whole process. Because it is Very difficult. And the fact that a court case has already been won, and yet this is still going on is can be very frustrating. But we have to have hope. And I think also working towards making this better for yourself and then for other people as well. can go a long way towards keeping that fire in your belly. Although it sounds like you don’t have too much trouble keeping that fire going.

Amber McCown  30:26

You are going to cry through this. Like it’s okay. You just can’t live there. You can’t let yourself live there is going to be infuriating. It’s got to be depressing. But you get to visit there. You don’t get to live there. Or your you’ll never get out.

Amber Tresca  30:42

Yeah. Amber. So I want to ask you something a little bit more about yourself. So let’s talk about something that’s a little bit more fun for a minute or two. So you let me in on the fact that you enjoy a renaissance fair. So I want to hear a little bit about that. I enjoy them as well. You got to go to one recently. Tell me a little bit about what you were up to and what you enjoy.

Amber McCown  31:12

Yes, we just got back from one this weekend. We stayed at my sister in law’s so that we could enjoy it. Enjoy an out of state when it’s on fire, which we haven’t gotten to do a lot until Andrew got his new job, which is amazing. Yeah, it was huge. It was gorgeous. Excellent weather. I got a little too much sun, I am very Irish Scottish mix. So I got a little lobster in the face. But I had a blast doing it. Love to see all the costumes love to see the Knights duke it out with their cheesy moves and all that. We got to have a blast. I didn’t dress up this time. But I have to. We’ve got a local fare coming up in two weeks that I’m hoping to dress up for that. I will be my usual pirate wench.

Amber Tresca  32:06

I have a friend that loves a good pirate joke. I’ll have to send you a bunch of pirate jokes that you can when you’re dressed. You can go around saying the jokes.

Amber McCown  32:17

Oh yes. I know some cheesy ones. They are just horrible.

Amber Tresca  32:22

All of her jokes are bad. Oh, yeah. Like that’s, it’s fine. It works out. We laugh at them anyway. I think it’s also a great way to just like forget about all of this. Right? Just like Yeah, go for a weekend. Yeah, just have a good time. And see your family. So that sounds really great.

Amber McCown  32:40

Oh, the food, the sounds the shopping, love the shopping…

Amber Tresca  32:46

…shopping.

Amber McCown  32:46

Oh my gosh, all the shopping.

Amber Tresca  32:49

Well, Amber, I want to thank you so much for talking with me, of course. And then for everything that you are doing to advance knowledge about copay accumulators, and how they’re affecting patients, and then also what we can do about them. Because we’re not helpless, we can take, we can take steps. So I hope that you will keep me updated as to what happens with the federal and I hope to see your name in more publications.

Amber Tresca  33:16

And then I just want to one more time, remind us of the patient advocacy group that you’re working with so that we can connect people with them as well. That group is the HIV and hepatitis Policy Institute. So we can connect people with them. And I wish you the best of luck in this because it’s affecting me it’s affecting almost everyone that I know that lives with an IBD and other conditions as well. So thank you so much for everything that you’re doing.

Amber McCown  33:46

Thank you for having me.

Amber Tresca  33:53

Hey\, super listener.

Amber Tresca  33:54

Thanks to Amber McCown for her activism and for talking to me about why copay accumulators are a major problem for patients, and how we can all take action.

Amber Tresca  34:04

If you are unclear about your own health care costs, contact your insurance carrier. If you’re not sure about your rights as a healthcare consumer, contact your state insurance commissioner.

Amber Tresca  34:17

I will put a link on how to find yours in the shownotes. As always, links to a written transcript and more information on the topics we discussed is in the show notes and on my episode 151 page on about ibd.com

Amber Tresca  34:31

Thanks for listening. And remember until next time, I want you to know more about IBD.

Amber Tresca  34:39

About IBD is a production of Mal and Tal Enterprises.

It is written, produced, and directed by me, Amber Tresca.

Mix and sound design is by Mac Cooney.

Theme music is from Cooney Studio. 

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